Marc Jacobs interviewed by Pierre A. M’Pelé.
Edited by Alexei Key.
In the rich tapestry of the New York fashion world few have risen to the lasting international cultural status of Marc Jacobs.
With his unique and unapologetic genius as designer and creative director, infused with a sharp intellect and voracious appetite for culture and the arts, Jacobs redefines the term “trailblazer”. Fiercely outspoken on both social and cultural issues, Jacobs stands as one of the true icons of modern-day fashion. The following interview took place at the height of the recent protests that swept through New York, in the shadow of the brutal murder of George Floyd. Always politically and socially astute, Jacobs approaches this interview with a characteristic sense of honesty and passion.
Louie Chaban.
Marc Jacobs: At this moment in time, I’m healthy. I’m safe. I’m very happy because I get to talk to you and I’m very happy to see you. And, I’m very curious about where we’re going to go with all this. So, that’s what I’m thinking and feeling at this moment.
Pierre A. M’Pelé: It’s such strange times, and so many things are happening at the same time.
Marc: Which is a perfect storm! There are no coincidences on God’s earth. This is all happening for a reason. There is a quote from Victor Hugo that I love, “There is no force on earth that can stop an idea whose time has come.”
Pierre: That’s true, I agree.
Marc: I learned through Jane Elliott, of course, and it’s a great quote. She’s a brilliant educator.
Pierre: Of course. She’s one of the people that has educated me because it’s regarding what’s going on in current conversations. I also realize that as a black person, I wasn’t that educated on racism because I never really recognized it, or I never really was or felt oppressed in one way or another.
Marc: It’s an interesting thing that you say that because I have a very dear friend, who I kind of grew up in New York with as a young fashion designer, and that’s Andre Walker. He loves Jane Elliott, and we had a conversation, and Andre believes “to God be the glory.” He has a special attitude and perspective about his purpose, our purpose as creatives, and what we’re here to do. He doesn’t let the outside world or the world outside of God’s will take away from that gift, and it’s extraordinary. But, by being so focused on what we create, we sometimes don’t see what’s happening around us.
Pierre: Yeah, it’s very easy to be in our bubble. I guess it’s a defense mechanism, that’s what I call it. We need to protect ourselves.
Marc: Yes, and that’s what I did as a child. I protected myself from all the chaos that was going on in my dysfunctional family. My father died, my mother was in an institution, and I protected myself, my eight-year-old self by going into my bedroom, drawing, making things, putting curlers in my hair, and inventing my persona. In my room, I was safe from the reality of the chaos of the world. So, I think it’s a very learned behavior to remove myself from what I can’t deal with and create what I can.
Pierre: So, fashion and clothing and the way we dress to express ourselves and our identity when we’re young, teenagers, or our whole lives. I love that you’re putting on chapstick.
Marc: Chapstick. I do it all. I would be doing my nails too, but I want to pay attention.
Pierre: How did this come about with you? When did you realize that you can use fashion and clothing to express who you were or who you are?
Marc: I became aware when I was very young that I got more pleasure from choosing clothes to go back to school than I did sports. I wasn’t interested in being a president, or being an astronaut, or playing sports, or painting paintings or making sculptures, or making music. I loved it when my grandmother took me to buy clothes to go to sleepaway camp the year my father died. I chose those clothes and those clothes had such value to me because I got to choose my chinos and my things. It’s a gift from God or a power greater than myself or whatever you want to call it. I call that power God. Putting the pieces together to express myself was the medium that I wanted to show. Look, I was a little gay eight-year-old Jew boy from New York. Even though I got bullied for the way I looked, it was more important to me to be true to myself and dress the way I wanted to, than the fear I had for not fitting in. I’d rather have them call me “faggot,” “sissy,” or whatever, but I’m going to do it dressed in a pair of chinos with flocked velvet ladybugs on them.
Pierre: What gave you that strength and that mindset?
Marc: I do not know to this day. I do not know why I was born with this God-given desire to express myself and get attention for it. There are two parts here. It was, one, I felt I needed to do what I needed to do for me because this was my instinct. I would not, to myself, be true if I repressed the urge to dress up. But I also loved the attention, even when it was negative. Because the negative propelled me to do it even more. I was like, fuck you, and if you don’t like that look? Wait ’til you see me tomorrow. If you didn’t like me in pink, you’re not going to like me in curlers and make-up either.
Pierre: I love that. I think that’s truly the attitude that kind of defines the fight of the LGBTQ community has had through the years. It’s like this will to keep on fighting and asserting ourselves.
Marc: Well, I think the gay community has always done that. There have been periods in time where the level of acceptance and again, “acceptance” is a word I detest. I do not want to be “accepted,” and I do not want to be “tolerated.” I want to belong. I don’t want to “fit in” either.
I want to belong; it’s just the way I feel.
It took 57 years to be able to say, “I’m not running away.” I’m here. I’m going to wear this. And, if it’s life-threatening, that is a risk I am willing to take. It shouldn’t be life-threatening, nor should the color of my skin, nor should my sexual preference and nor should whether I wear heels or sneakers. If I wore a pair of Nikes, whatever, I would “blend in” a bit more, but I would wear Rick Owens platform boots and Marc Jacobs high-heel shoes and whatever I want to wear. I know that I’m taking an educated risk when I walk down the street. New York City is not the world’s riskiest place; even a man who works for the sanitation department said “work!”
Pierre: There’s something about dressing up. Interestingly, you mention “acceptance” because when I was thinking about this interview and this conversation, it came to me that we, in recent years, have been a lot more intolerant.
Marc: Finally! Finally!
Pierre: I’m thinking of how Louis XIV’s brother was dressing and how throughout history, we have had periods of when being gay was, if not celebrated, absolutely not a big deal.
Marc: Well, it wasn’t talked about so, it was a thing that you could do but couldn’t say, it might have been known that men had courtesans and had mistresses, but you didn’t talk about it. You had your wife and the queen and whoever, and if you were fucking around with boys, it wasn’t something you advertised because you would’ve been taken apart for being a homosexual. But if you didn’t talk about it, it wasn’t a problem. But men have had sex with men throughout history, and it’s been ignored, so that way, it’s like if I don’t see it, I’m not bothered. But if I see it or call it out, then I’m going to have to have an opinion on it.
Pierre: I want to know where does your sense of activism come from?
Marc: I don’t know. I’m just mad as hell.
Pierre: Because in the past, you’ve done so much, and you were “woke” even before “woke” became a word on the scene.
Marc: I’ve never been “woke.” I told this to a New York Times journalist who was writing a profile on me many years ago. I was taught to call people by their name; our housekeeper was named “Reisa,” I did not call her our “housekeeper.” I called her “Reisa.” Now, if you did not know who Reisa was when I was talking about her, I would tell you she was the woman who took care of our house. If I was in a restaurant, I did not address someone as “the waiter.” I did not go to school and call the man who took care of cleaning the halls, “the janitor.” I was taught that no race was better than another race, that no religion was better than another religion. It wasn’t that I was sat down and taught that. But I grew up with a loving father who didn’t have hatred in his heart for people who were “other” than him. And, so I learned at a very early age that “otherness” is “otherness.” there was no hierarchy. I was not “better than,” and I was not “less than” because I had more because I was lighter-skinned.
Part of my practice in my program of recovery is that I work every day to stay sober and clean and that I have to remind myself and ask for help from my higher power, which I call God, to be right-sized. I don’t want to be “less than,” and I don’t want to be “more than.” I want to be right-sized.
I have the same feelings as you. I feel fear, and I feel anxiety, loneliness, sadness, and joy. So instead of looking for the differences, I try to look for the similarities in all people. That is how I recover one day at a time.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to scream, Pierre. I’m just so worked up about all of this. I mean, I have to tell you, I haven’t left this room in three months. I feel there’s so much rage, grief, excitement, fear, joy, and any time someone opens the window to let it out; it’s like bam!
Pierre: It’s all contained in that room…
Marc: No, I’m highly combustible.
Pierre: But you’re going to use this and turn this into positive energy and creativity.
Marc: I hope so! I might not be able to maintain this energy all the time. Nobody can do anything 24/7, 365 days of the year. But I am going to try to do something kind for another person every day of my life. I am going to try to be of service every day of my life. That is what I need to do to stay sober and to be clean. I cannot be of service unless I am in good mental health and good physical health. I’m of no use to anybody else if I don’t get dressed and get out of bed.
Pierre: You said in an interview. “I have found pride in my deafness, queerness, Jewishness, and race, and now these characteristics emanate from me — electric and strong.” So, in what ways has each one of these characteristics helped you find pride in who you are?
Marc: Let’s put it this way, rather than use the word “pride,” I have no shame in this particular moment in time. Shame is a killer. It’s what will make people feel they can’t apologize for making a mistake. You have someone who made a mistake, and because they feel shame for the mistake they’ve made, they will leave the situation instead of saying, “I made a mistake.” So, this idea of “shame” and guilt will kill us all. We cannot be ashamed to think the way we think, feel the way we feel, and say what we say and be willing to make mistakes and be willing to learn. So, at this moment, I don’t know if I have a lot of pride, but what I do not have is shame. I have the word “shameless” tattooed on my chest because it is what I aspire to be. I want to live a life without shame.
Pierre: What are you doing this Pride Month? Are you doing anything special? I mean, I know you’re in the hotel room, but how are you going to celebrate?
Marc: I celebrate Pride every day of my life. Last year was a special Pride because it marked 50 years of the Stonewall Riots. Marsha P. Johnson was a Black trans woman who led that riot, and there was quite a lot made of last year’s Pride and paying respect to her and Sylvia Rivera. And, this Pride, I don’t have plans. I will continue to speak up and support and listen to my community, and if my community needs me to donate money to trans charities, that’s what I’ll do. And if my community needs me to be vocal on my Instagram platform, that’s what I’ll do. If my community asks me to put on a dress and march around in high heels, then that’s what I’ll do. I don’t have any specific plans but, I’m open to listening to my community on how I can be of service to them.
Pierre: Speaking of Instagram, you’ve been super vocal. I feel like it must be a nightmare for PR publicists to have you as a client because you just say it as you mean it. You’re not only very supportive of the LGBTQ community; you’re also very supportive of any minority or oppressed group.
Marc: I’m very supportive. I’m very affected by what’s going on, and it hurts. It’s very sad, and I can’t stay quiet. I can’t be that boy who goes back and says, “I’ll work this out for myself.” I can’t be that boy anymore. I’ve learned too much, so I’ll be fucking damned if I’m going to keep my mouth shut. I mean, I will listen, but I’m not going to be silenced.
Pierre: Do you follow Twitter?
Marc: I don’t follow Twitter or Facebook. I’m only on Instagram.
Pierre: Well, Black Twitter is very supportive of you. But I also want to talk about the Marc Jacobs Beauty campaign that you did in 2018. You were the face of it, and to me, that was kind of a key moment.
Marc: Was I?
Pierre: Yes. You were.
Marc: Oh, for Pride. I was one of the faces.
Pierre: Yes, indeed. That was a key moment in breaking barriers again. So how are you using Marc Jacobs Beauty, or how did this whole Pride campaign happen? Why was it important for you to use Marc Jacobs Beauty?
Marc: They asked me. And, I said, “of course.” If you haven’t read it, it’s a good read by a very intelligent human named Harry Brandt. He wrote it for Interview magazine. It was about men in make-up and the shame and how, throughout history, men have worn make-up, but how it’s considered masculine or not masculine depends on where we are in the history of the world. And I have always said that make-up has no gender, and clothes have no gender. When I buy a coat from the Prada Women’s Collection, I’m buying a coat. Now, it was fit on a woman, and when I put it on, it’s got a woman’s body because it was fit for a woman, and I’m a boy so it doesn’t fit me the way it was meant to, but I’m buying a coat. I don’t care if it’s a men’s coat, a woman’s coat, a girl’s coat, a boy’s coat. You can’t tell me that an inanimate object has a gender. It is not women’s make-up or men’s make-up, and this idea right now, the idea of ageism, sexism, racism, or homophobia is past intolerable. I will not tolerate it in my life.
Pierre: It’s an interesting time, especially in the U.S. We have number 45 [Donald Trump] in office, hopefully not for long. What would you say to him if you could?
Marc: Resign! That’s what Jane Elliott said when she was asked by a journalist, “how would you tell Donald Trump to aid in the fight against racism?” And she said, “resign!”
Pierre: Why do you think there is such a polarization of society? I feel like we’re in an era where there is a constant black or white — not the color of the skin — but like the concept of black and white, good versus evil. Why is this happening?
Marc: I think math. If you look at arithmetic, one plus one equals two; no one can argue that. But if you become abstract and if you take all the shades of grey, you’re left with theory, philosophy, and opinions.
So, all the grey is debatable. But, grey, is it a warm grey? Is it a cool grey? How would you describe that grey? How does that grey make you feel? When you see that color grey, what does it make you think? It’s too undefinable, and it’s too abstract of a concept for most people to wrap their heads around; and the thing is, they don’t recognize that they don’t have to wrap their heads around it. It’s not a question of solving it. It’s a question of recognizing it. To quote Jane Elliott, “recognize and appreciate and value.” Let’s recognize, appreciate, and value all the shades of grey. You don’t have to say this grey is better than that grey or that grey is right, and that grey is wrong. Come on already, people; it’s 2021, wake the fuck up. We live in a world of white and black and all the greys in-between and all the colors in-between.
Marc: After the rain comes the rainbow and the rainbow is a colorful thing. It is not black and white. After the storm, after the storm.
Pierre: Which will hopefully end very soon.
Marc: I think we’ve only just begun. The storm is just in its early days. We’re kind of in a storm warning right now.
Pierre: Do you think we can reverse and prevent the storm from happening?
Marc: No, the storm is happening. It’s coming. No force on earth can stop an idea whose time has come.
Pierre: 2020 is probably going to be a key year in our recent history.
Marc: It already is!
Pierre: It’s already a major year. How do you perceive the future?
Marc: I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you, and this is another cliché “if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.” I didn’t know a week ago that there would be looting. I didn’t know that two weeks ago or three weeks ago that George Floyd would become a hero. I didn’t know that we would have Coronavirus and that we would be quarantined. Anything could happen today or tomorrow. The sky could fall for all I know. So, I would rather be involved in the solution instead of looking at the problem. If we look at the future and look at the past, we are shitting all over the present.
Pierre: That’s true. I asked this because you are a fashion designer and you have to know in advance what you want to do.
Marc: But we don’t, that’s a misconception. My design team and I don’t think in advance. We’re just in a cycle of creating, and the schedule is in advance, but we’re thinking about what we’re experiencing in the moment of creation. We’re not thinking about how do we create something for next September. We’re thinking about what do we want to create right now? We’re not thinking about the destination we’re thinking about the journey, so it’s a misconception that fashion designers are looking far ahead.
Pierre: And, now that the cycle has been broken for almost everyone, how is this going to impact your journey?
Marc: I do not know. This is a really interesting time because I believe something amazing will come out of this, but I do not know what it will be. I don’t know how we will show it. I don’t know who we’ll have to manifest it. We have to address how much we spend and how we can operate safely with Coronavirus, which did not go away. For all those people out there, who think it’s okay not to wear a mask and not keep a safe social distance, they’re idiots. When my husband arrived back after three months, we met each other six meters away with masks and gloves, and we are trying to figure out how we can live safely together in the same house after being separated for three months. So, I don’t take this lightly and, I don’t take this lightly in terms of work. We can’t have two seamstresses sitting side by side. It’s not safe. You can’t have people wearing a mask all day at the office and using a public restroom. How can I pin a model? How can I get my make-up done unless I do it myself? How can I dye my hair unless I dye it myself? I have no idea how I’m going to tell my story. I have no idea how I’m going to get fabric, how we make fabric, how we research clothes because all the ways we used to do it are no longer safe.
Pierre: What’s the positive outcome in this Corona crisis when it comes to you and your team?
Marc: It’s been a few months of learning and growing and given the luxury to re-evaluate what I do and how essential it is. One thing I know for a fact is that creatives in every field are essential. If they were not essential, you and I would be sitting here naked with nothing to read, no music to listen to, no magazines to look at, no images to be inspired by, and no movies to think about. Nietzsche said: “We have art so that we do not die of reality.” I never thought of fashion as an art form, but it’s part of the art of living which Mainbocher said, “fashion is not an art, it is part of the art of living.” Like beautiful homes, like good food, we don’t need them. But we want them, and that doesn’t mean that they’re not essential. Because, as a human race, we want, we desire, we need to be stimulated and need creativity. More now than ever, I know that my role is not going to save lives, but if I didn’t have closets full of clothes, my life would have been miserable these last three months. I wouldn’t have had anything to do.
Pierre: While you were in quarantine, what sort of movies or music were you listening to?
Marc: At the beginning of quarantine, I watched a lot of bad TV. I mean junk food TV, like the Beverly Hills Housewives, 90 Day Fiancé, and Love Island UK. I watched really mindless things. I couldn’t deal with anything that I had to think about, but then things changed, and I needed silence. I didn’t want to listen to music, watch TV or read. I just wanted to be here and be quiet, but I’ve come out of that little bit by bit. I watched a movie that had a profound effect on me called “Crip Camp,” produced by the Obamas. It’s a beautiful documentary. I watched a movie called “Pain and Glory” by Pedro Almodóvar about his first love. I connected to it because it reminded me of what I felt when I first saw a man I loved naked when I was a child at sleepaway camp. It took so many years to look back and realize what an impression that was and what a moment that was for me in terms of realizing I was gay and in terms of understanding what it was to love someone. I started to watch things that I felt I was learning something.
Pierre: I’m curious to know, do you have internal conflicts in life?
Marc: Every minute. When I’m not talking, and when I’m not connecting with “you”, I’m having this conversation with myself. I never stop. Sometimes I wish I could quiet my brain and make it stop, and it’s something I have to practice—meditation, etc. Whether I’m talking to my dogs, the sofa, or talking to a lamp, I’m always going. I’m reading a book now, which was also a recommendation by Jane Elliott called “On Tyranny.” I read André’s (Leon Talley) book, “The Chiffon Trenches,” and I do daily readings of reflections.
Pierre: What did you think of André’s book?
Marc: At first, I was very sad reading it. I can hear his voice. I’ve known André for so many years, and he’s been a supporter of mine since the day I made my first piece of clothing. André has a very special place in my heart. Not only as someone I look up to and respect but someone who has nurtured me. In the beginning, I was a little sad because I can hear André talking about Loulou (de la Falaise), Yves (Saint Laurent), and Karl (Lagerfeld), and all I read was about death and how good things used to be. Then it started reading differently, and I thought this is André giving me his history in his voice.
Pierre: I just received it. I haven’t read it yet.
Marc: I’ve read André’s other book about him growing up, so I know a little about his life. I was in a dark place when I first picked up the book, and all I could think about is how much better things were back then, and why can’t we go back to the way things were? Then it shifted into I am gifted and grateful that I get to read this man’s story, and then I started to enjoy it.
Pierre: You said, “grateful.” It’s become kind of your signature, especially on Instagram. #GratefulNotHateful. When did you start using it, and why?
Marc: I don’t know how that started. My friend Andre (Walker) uses a hashtag. Andre is somebody I grew up with; we came up as young designers around the same time, and his show was one of the first fashion shows I saw in New York by a young designer. Andre would sometimes say, “to God be the glory,” so #GratefulNotHateful is my way of saying #ToGodBeTheGlory.
Pierre: You and your husband celebrated your one-year wedding anniversary while in quarantine, how was that?
Marc: It was a ritual. An anniversary is an appreciation, and it’s an acknowledgment of a period of time that’s past. We were told we had to eat a piece of our cake that was frozen, so we did it on Facetime. Traditionally the one-year wedding anniversary is a paper anniversary, so I cut a big red heart out of an envelope I received from the hotel. I pasted that on a piece of paper, and I wrote my husband a note and sent it to Los Angeles. He had taken a picture of us at our wedding and had it made into a puzzle on cardboard then sent it to me, so we celebrated our paper anniversary by making something for each other out of paper and sharing the cake. That’s how we celebrated and acknowledged our one year of being husband and husband. You were at the wedding.
Pierre: Yes! That was just incredible. We danced so much.
Marc: And, that’s how it should be. We will dance again.
Pierre: I remember it was so much fun. Honestly, it was my first time in New York.
Marc: So many people from so many worlds came together. It was everyone from my doctor, to my dentist, to Charlie’s tattoo artist, to his parents, all of his friends and all of my friends from school, from fashion, from everywhere. It was such a celebration in the way of what life used to be and what life is. It was magical. When I think back on it, it’s the last chapter in André’s (Leon Talley) book, he writes about that night.
Pierre: Oh, wow. That’s the night I met him. I remember having a two-second conversation with him because I did not want to bother anyone. He was very gentlemanly and humble. Where did you get this thing for bringing people together? You’re the only designer or one of the few who can bring Lil Kim and Sofia Coppola together in the same room.
Marc: That’s how I grew up in New York City. I had a friend who lived downstairs from me, and he was a nerd, a heterosexual nerdy science kid. I had friends that had all different likes, and I went to the High School of Art & Design, so all through my education, I loved people who liked making things together. I always talk about collaboration. Everything in life is a collaboration. It’s a collaboration with the pattern makers, the seamstresses, the design team, the people who make the fabric, who deliver the fabric, and the people who fly the planes with the fabric. There’s a mathematical equation: “The whole equals the sum of its parts.” So, if you make all the parts part of the whole, that’s collaboration. And, that’s how I see life and friendship.
Pierre: What’s the most important thing in friendship?
Marc: Loyalty. I have no relationship with my birth family. I always use a hashtag with Naomi, and with all the other people at my wedding, they were my #chosenfamily. Charlie (my husband) had his non-biological parents, but he had his parents who raised him, and I had my 48 closest chosen family members because those are the people, I have chosen to be my family, and they have been there for me. One of my longest loyal relationships is with Naomi (Campbell), and Naomi saved my life when I was suffering from terrible drug addiction and alcoholism. She was the one who was instrumental in getting me into rehab. She, Robert Duffy, and Anna Wintour were the three people that made me go to rehab and stopped allowing me to make excuses.
Pierre: I didn’t know that.
Marc: Well, it’s true.
Pierre: People have this perception of fashion friendships not being real friendships.
Marc: Well, they don’t know what a friend is then. I’m not talking about people I’m acquainted with; I’m not talking about people I’ve met. I’m talking about people who will show up when you need them and people who will listen, hear you and be there for you even if you don’t speak to them for hundreds of days, and they’re still there for you.
Pierre: You don’t take that word lightly and neither do I. My best friend lives in London, we can spend some time, a month, without talking to each other and then we’ll be on the phone for six hours.
Marc: Well, I have friends I haven’t seen or spoken to in years, but I sent them an invitation to the wedding because I wanted them to be there and knew they would come.
Phoebe (Philo), who doesn’t go anywhere, flew in. Whether I speak to her once or twice every year or once every three years, she’s a friend, and we’ve been friends since the day I moved to Paris.
Hedi (Slimane) and I have had very few physical moments together, but we have a genuine friendship. That friendship is not based on the quantity of time we’ve spent in each other’s physical company. I have an appreciation, respect, and admiration for him. We’ve had lunch at my home, hung out on the bench in front of the Mercer, and have been to parties at the Chateau Marmont together. I have many friends in the fashion industry because we have a like interest. Some of the few people who have reached out to me during this time (of pandemic) are Hedi, Raf (Simons), Clare (Waight Keller), and my dear friend Anna Sui. I’m constantly in contact with Naomi (Campbell), Linda (Evangelista), Louie (Chaban), Jimmy (Paul), Pat (McGrath), Jacob (Neely), Lori (Goldstein) and Steven (Meisel). These are my friends, and these are the people that I have had contact with during this pandemic.
Pierre: You mentioned Paris. Do you miss living in Paris?
Marc: I don’t miss living in Paris, but I miss my life in Paris. I miss my job at Louis Vuitton. During the Paris shows, I get very depressed because it’s left a real void. It’s left a hole in my soul. It was always difficult, and it was always a lot of work, but it was a part of my life for 16 years. So, when the shows come on, I have a physical and mental reaction. In the past, I wouldn’t have time to recover from the New York show, I was straight on a plane going back to Paris and working like a madman on Louis Vuitton, so I only collapsed after the Paris show. When you take those two weeks away from me, that’s where the depression begins.
Pierre: Would you give the same advice that you would give to yourself to the next generation?
Marc: I don’t give advice. It’s another word I don’t like to use. I can share my experience with you, but I will never give you advice. My experiences have taught me what I learned today or what I know today. I continue to learn, and I’m as curious today as I was when I was eight. My shrink once told me, I hope you never find the last piece to the puzzle because the day you find the last piece, you’ve got nothing left to say.
You May Also Like: Yoon Ahn Talks Fashion, Jewelry and Streetwear
Pierre A. M’Pelé is Senior Editor at Love Magazine.
